State of the NLE: Which Editing Software is Best?


Well I think this was pushed originally
as some kind of cage match and there will be no blood here today we’re we all
known each other for a long time and there’s a lot of respect here everybody
has a point of view that is well established and we all try to look out
and understand not just the pluses but the minuses of everything so you’re
going to try probably get a pretty good even plan and nobody’s going to be
trashing anybody but we will try to eliminate some of the differences so
justyou ways okay so Michael Kammes tell them who you are!
My name is Michael Kammes. I’m the director of technology at Keycode Media
I’m here not on behest of Keycode Media but coming with knowledge provided by
them. We’re an integrator in the Hollywood arena as well as around the
country so we play with a lot of NLEs especially Avid. Oliver! I’m Oliver Peters.
I’m a freelance editor and colorist and primarily in the Central Florida area.
So commercials, corporate videos, the odd indie feature film. Whatever comes our
way. And you’ve seen his name in print a thousand times because Oliver has
written a thousand articles. Scott! Scott Simmons I’m also a freelance editor out
of Nashville and a lot of the same stuff Oliver works on. Don’t get many features
but do a lot of music stuff and I have run the edit blog on Pro Video Coalition
where I’m the managing editor. Provideocoalition.com So we talk about
this stuff a lot…sadly. So who wants to go first and just pick an NLE or just
to look like maybe a very short overview of everything. Scott you have a current
mic. Well, I mean the state of the NLE right now is very good.
There’s we’ve never had so many choices at so many price points and from ranging
from several hundred bucks down to free. A lot of free options out there it’s not just
Avid, Apple and Adobe. In fact I did a class at NAB this year called
“NLE Independence: Editing Beyond Avid, Apple and Adobe” and didn’t realize I
mean you kind of what was out there but digging into some of the other options
there’s there’s a lot of stuff out there for pretty much any sort of way one
wants to work for the most part. But you know there’s still Premiere, Avid, Final
Cut. Now we’ve got Resolve. Resolve suddenly got a lot better.
But there’s, you know the kids are using Hitfilm, Lightworks are still free and
movies are being cut in Light Works. Sony has a little program called Catalyst Edit
and then they sold Vegas to Magix, which is in making trying to make Vegas
still a thing. So there’s a lot. I kind of view it as, you know, sort of the
best of times the worst of times, right. So if you’re a user it couldn’t be
better. I mean you know compared to when we
started in the business the cost is an infinitesimal amount versus studios and
facilities of years past but I think it’s also a difficult time for
developers because if you make plugins it’s kind of hard to sell an expensive
plug-in that cost more than the host application so you know pros and cons to
the way it way it all shakes out I I would have to agree on that point but
for best times worse sometimes but I look at it from a little bit of
different perspective on a creative level I think as was then pointed out
the price points are so low anyone can get started but I think at least from
the the playground that that I’m in the LA area facilities multi-million dollar
facilities are built on an avid infrastructure and I’ll probably lose my
job tomorrow by saying this but I’m extraordinarily worried about avid and
where their focus is in terms of the creative market avid recently filed
actually this week and SEC filing the security Exchange Commission’s and when
they talk about you know what revenue was last year and what the projections
are and where the roadmap is for the company and they actually had a diagram
that said where we see the most growth in the market and number one was digital
rights management well that doesn’t sound like editing to me media asset
management was also up there as something like editing to me as I looked
further in there they showed that they only saw a four percent market growth
for video editing and there was none for color correction so that tells me where
they’re talking to their shareholders and they’re talking to the people that
you know pay them and keep them going enterprise customer Enterprise well not
not just enterprise customers buttons and non create
yeah so we’re talking the storage the asset of the media is the digital rights
management to be able to monetize this the on-demand video and a lot of that
falls outside of the scope of most people who think of average because they
think of it as a creative tool so I’m very worried about the future when that
doesn’t seem to be the focus and I’m really predominantly Final Cut Pro 10
editor I’ve been an advocate of it since the early days because it lit up
something in my brain that hadn’t been lit up in a long time and my history
I’ve been in mostly corporate for a long time and I was really one of those guys
who adopted Final Cut originally and it changed everything about my business
before that I had been in traditional media production we had run an
advertising agency that was pretty small but we moved heavily into print and then
print got us into the computers that got us into desktop publishing and next
thing you know we’re suddenly finding our clients asking for bigger budget
work constantly but in the media space rather than the print space and so
everything started transforming when we had tools that we could afford that
allowed us to go out into the marketplace and really jump over some of
the traditional players where you had to be a web press operator that you had to
go do a line a tronic thing we could suddenly do that stuff on the early Macs
and it really kind of incubated a lot of small businesses all across the world
and I saw the same thing happening in the start of video and it was very
exciting and there was a very quick evolution from simple tools to holy heck
I can start competing with some of these people with a smaller footprint less
expensive tool and do extraordinary quality work so that happened to me in
print I’ve seen some of the same thing in video but I don’t want to go on too
long so what was your kind of evolution into your NLE thinking I think mine was
you know I learned on avid way back when you know there was a time when an avid
editor you know they were called avid editors was a very lucrative skill to
have there weren’t many of us out there and if you could if you could run the
app and tell a good story you were you know you’re really in high demand and
you could charge high numbers for your time but you know as Final Cut classic
came along when DB came along it sort of started to you know to democratize the
whole thing and I went freelance and you the way I look at it now is the
freelancer I don’t care what I’m going to cut on as long as I get to cut and I
long to get to edit I’ve said that in front of every session I’ve been doing
at NAB this year it’s a freelancer I’m fine to work on any of them they’re not
that hard to go from one to the other it’s not that hard to you know change
your keyboard mapping it’s not that hard to realize you know what I got to push
this button Stu that button our brains can process this in much information I
don’t want to turn down a job because it’s from a facility that works it has
an avid infrastructure I don’t turn that down I just tell a story a little bit
different way it’s not any harder and easier it’s just a little bit a little
bit a little bit different and that’s in this day and age when there’s so many
options out there you know the tool is irrelevant in the sense more so than has
ever been well I may challenge you on that a minute but go ahead well I think
it depends on what segment of the market you’re in right so if you are in charge
of what you do and you’re being paid to deliver a product as long as it’s good
it doesn’t matter how you got there but if you work as a freelancer who get out
clocks in at various facilities then you usually don’t have the ability to make
that decision unless everybody else is on the same page so I may like final cut
10 but if I’m working for a company that says no no you got to use premiere
because when you go on to the next job and somebody needs to tap into your
project we all only understand premier and therefore you know we want you to
work in premier same with Media Composer I do anymore probably two or three Media
Composer jobs a year having started out primarily as an avid editor and that’s
just the nature of the market that I work in because the Media Composer jobs
I do are outside companies that come in or that hire me and they happen to use
avid and you know that’s part of the infrastructure I’m willing to bet that
all three of you got into the industry because you wanted to create correct
that that you wanted to create right there’s not a lot people who said you
know what I want to get an industry because I want to troubleshoot I want to
fix stuff and I’m not fixing stuff just the
hitters that and I like to look at things the
philosophy I like to use of the one throat to choke philosophy right so if
something goes wrong I know who to call and for various reasons I’m not saying
it’s the best that are out there but I’m saying for that reason which would be
more of a business reason would be something like Abbott right because I
haven’t got the editor they’ve got the audio editor for Pro Tools I’ve got the
asset management they’ve got the storage they now have the distribution so though
now they have all that tied in so you have one phone number you can call
granite it may go overseas but you got one phone number to call right and when
you’re dealing with Final Cut 10 we’re now looking at all I have to get this
plug-in from intelligent assistance to get this out I have to buy a third-party
source that may or may not natively support phone cat 10 right or I may want
to use premier and pocket on that same storage oh wait they can’t mount the
volumes the same oh this interrupt is work with this
program now I got to look watching YouTube video on how to do it so it ends
up becoming a less of a creative and more of a triage process to get what
avid already has under one roof it would be great to go there but I want to go
one other place first and that there was we try to figure out so what do I want
to talk about when I was here and I think passed by my internet feed from
Alex : or who’s a friend of mine some of you know him as Alex 4d and he did this
really interesting thing that I thought would spark some discussion it is not
one way or the other about an NL Li but it says something more in a broader
context and what he says Michael is right oh is that what he’s yeah there no
this is interesting he that analyzes document production technology so it’s a
it’s a kind of a metaphor it’s not a direct there’s nothing completely
accurate or completely not accurate but it’s a good conversation starter I think
we can all talk about and he said his opinion avid media composer equals
printing press and that was fascinating to me because the printing press changed
the world there is no argument that this was a hugely powerful change in the
world that really other than fire I can’t think of many things in the
printing press that has made a bigger difference in human life then he won
maybe the wheel in the wheel yeah you can get the wheel that’s that’s fair
then he went Brussels and he said avid media composer his printing press adobe
premiere colour photocopier that is another thing that incredibly
helped the world disseminate information and
make big leaps in how people do their work you can take information and and
become not just a printer because the printer is the thing where you have to
have a shop and so but now you do it yourself and it’s much more powerful in
some ways he went on to resolve as color printer color is of course incredibly
powerful to resolve and but here’s here’s the thing that blew me away when
he got to Final Cut Pro does anybody want to guess what he had likened it to
he said web page one of these things is not like the others that doesn’t mean
any of them are worse or any of them are better and it’s matter-of-fact you
cannot deal with the web page which you can do with some of these other fabulous
tools that are really robust and tremendous in terms of being able to
communicate with large audiences and take your ideas and spread them around
the world but it’s a different kind of a thing for a different era and it works
differently so push back at that anybody want to well I mean that’s an Alex has
some awesome thoughts like that I would agree it’s interesting to think about
that but the problem I see with that is you know ultimately with a few
exceptions here and there if you go out with a Sony f5 and you shoot you know
whatever program is any of those four tools can get you to ultimately the same
result yes but is that is that result the one thing that you want is there
something about without what when you’re making a film or media production the
result is is ultimately the only thing that you want you want the good result
you want the finish piece sometimes although some people would argument that
now in the days of web interconnect and lists is that one piece the final
product or is there a different era now where we are touching that piece and
revising it constantly and as new information comes in you want to go
touch your documents and maybe refresh them or do something different sure but
we can do that with Oliver yeah I’m not so sure that his analogy is necessarily
related to the end result I think it’s more related to process because I think
I tend to agree with Scott the result is the result and you can do all kinds of
things with all of them but it’s the process that you get there and there are
obviously a clear difference between how you
handle final cut 10 in terms of the process of doing the task as opposed to
most of the other NLEs but then there are advantages to the others as well
some of them unique to certain segments film editing or something like that
those of you who use more than one talked to us a little bit about what
they do particularly well and where you think their strengths lie robustness is
a key factor ok so which of those would you think if you’re looking for
something that just doesn’t break where would you go
depends on the size of the project so many factors yeah bitter well yeah yeah
when you’re going through that I would say for most editors that have been
doing this for a while that would probably still fall to Media Composer ok
and you know I go through that because I interview a lot of film editors that do
you know a list stuff and as much as we like to think that oh well they’re kind
of stuck in their ways doing this you talk to them and they do in fact dabble
with other you know NLEs in their downtime and you know they’ll all come
back to well you know when push comes to shove this is the one I can rely on you
know to not embarrass me in front of a director well and I just I disagree with
that but because the way I look at robustness is the amount of things I can
do how well-rounded it is right right and if we’re talking about the
robustness of the editor we can take care of the equation because your
storage doesn’t edit right Pro Tools is an editing video and that’s when I look
at that’s when I would put my raise my hand for Creative Suite right because
you have all those other applications that go hand in hand with creating video
give the Photoshop direct Interop you have dynamic linking with After Effects
to get your Compson to do visual effects or motion effects with your video as
well whereas if you look at it really doesn’t have that right we’re talking
adding Boris on top sit or whatnot in Final Cut 10 well we’re buying
third-party plugins and filters and those by Alex to complement that okay
Scott you want to pop in on well I I think not always we have to go buy that
stuff I mean you take any of the tools out of the box and
you can you can pretty much complete a project without buying anything extra
you know unless you need to go out to you know xml’s or EDL’s or it’s in your
own mouth out or whatever like we’re not talking about just loading media cutting
something doing a little color fix an audio exporting it you can do all that
and all them without buying anything else but yeah there are more things you
need to attach to Final Cut 10 to do certain things premiere has lots of good
stuff built into it already avid you know the color correctors old premiers
color correctors kind of new Monica tenez color board is its own little
world so it all just depends on you know how you want to work and yet it is about
Alex’s thing would be about the process sure and some people prefer one type of
process over the other and you know I often Joe deters who talked about you
know how bad Final Cut 10 is it’s never touched it and that we talked about that
ad nauseam for years now but some do touch it and just don’t like the way it
works plain and simple now there are those who go to Final Cut 10 who could
never go back to the way on traditional and only works with premiere or
something it’s fine you know my mindset is that you know I can learn to use them
all and I can pick the one that’s best for the job that’s what I think is best
about the world we live in now because there are times that I in my humble
opinion find some tools better than the other one for certain things
now resolves this new little crazy world now with 14 because it’s going to add
another little wrinkle into this because there may be times when what they’re
doing now if you know once it gets out of beta might be better so it’s sort of
like a fourth option that’s added in right look I have a question because all
of us obviously interactive people around the country around the world and
speak at various places I like to hear from each of you and your own
demographic areas geography our geographic over here thank
you you can say it what are you what are you seeing the paradigm shift to because
we can all go up here and say well I think Final Cut 10 is better or I think
avid is better but the people you’re talking to and people that you’re
helping and you’re writing articles for PVC and whatnot what do you seeing
people moving towards or moving away from can I jump in on this one for now
just because the one thing I want to just this is weird almost nothing I am
doing today in terms of shooting production and delivery is anything much
like what I was doing five years ago except the core story telling the core
story telling and trying to create you know crap something that the audience
will really resonate with is the only thing that’s the same every other touch
point from what I’m shooting on to how I’m doing metadata tagging to getting
onto the timeline and trying to figure out how to organize the story and tell
it powerfully to sharing out to the web to up to frame IO to plugged into the
website to go out to the people who are connected to the website that seems all
totally different in just five years for me and so that has been a huge change
and the tool has helped me a lot to just manage that right but but you are
viewing that from inside no offense the bubble that that you work and sure I
sure you know if the question is really more related to what are the
demographics that you’re seeing I’d say in you know my market is Central Florida
but I think this is probably happening all over the country outside of maybe
New York or LA and that is I see predominantly premiere and I still see
Media Composer but it’s you know take a television station the news department
is still on news cutter but the promo guys are on premiere they might have
been on Final Cut 7 before and they ship the de première I see however I do see
pockets of 10 so in my market you’ve got somebody like the guys that are doing
video for the VA office for whatever reason they adopted Final Cut 10 you
know and so it seems like it’s there it’s just not necessarily in all the
obvious places that you look but I mean you can go to the press room right here
at NAB and there’s a bunch of guys cutting video on laptops and in the
several days I’ve been in there all I’ve seen has been premiere and you know why
that is I don’t know I am working a similar marketing on Nashville it’s a
lot of media being produced there because of the entertainment industry
but it’s still small and I have seen a shift more toward premiere sure there’s
a couple of final cut 10 production companies and it’s usually a production
being that have adopted it as opposed to where you have an outfit with the maybe
three or four or five seats those are usually gone the premiere I mean we sell
CMT’s still on avid I did talk to someone in one of my classes today that
is moving from premiere they’re moving their business from premiere to have it
so that was hadn’t heard that in a while I think that a lot of the final cut
tendon I encounter is smaller single users or smaller or smaller pockets like
you said and then and I think that that’s it’s it really serves some of
those type of those productions well because I did training on final cut the
end a few weeks ago for a little medical company that they have to do all of
their all their training videos or all of their of procedures I do get videoed
and they were using iMovie and I got called in to do training because they
were going to move to premiere because they have to have Photoshop so we get
there and I see I movie and I’m like why are you not going to Final Cut 10 and
they’re like well I don’t know we have the cloud we thought we’d go to premiere
and I set out to you what let’s train the first half today in premiere the
last half a day in Final Cut 10 and we did just that and about an hour into the
Final Cut and she’s like well this is insane why would I ever move to premiere
because we showed her cut rebel call-outs because they hatch yet they
have to like point to stuff I’m like premier would be a bad choice for you
you need to be moving to Final Cut 10 which is a great example of adapting you
know what you needed to the tool and it was the perfect tool for them I her I
think there’s an interesting hook and that adds to the uniqueness of 10 and
that is plug ins because every other NLE out there you have to buy a package of
plugins right in Final Cut 10 it’s basically built on top of motion and all
of the plugins that you get for Final Cut 10 by and large our motion templates
that somebody’s gone through and some of them are incredibly complex I mean you
know they’re developed by people who really understand motion inside and out
however their tools in motion that don’t exist in Final Cut 10 and if there’s a
particular filter that you happen to want to use there’s nothing that
prevents the user from going out and deciding oh I want a
filter that adds color levels and you can create your own little motion
template and use it from there on out and that’s something that to my
knowledge has never existed before in any of the other NLEs that are out there
and it adds a lot of horsepower to the product that probably doesn’t get you
know song a lot in in its praises well to throw just to continue on with the
the geographic and demographic question at least in LA avid is still the near
pound gorilla all your feature films are kind of excuse me all your big-budget
Hollywood release films are avid I think at the last nes it was like 99 percent
100 percent of the profit and the entries were cut an avid TV is all avid
the what we are seeing though is that the smaller production houses and the
startup unscripted reality houses are starting with premiere because they’re
starting very small we are seeing folks who are doing lower budget independent
stuff going Adobe what I’m not seeing and what I really thought is that you
know when Final Cut classic came out and you know final cut three or four came
out and you know the world changed that a lot of post facilities you would see
an assist Bay in the back of the facility had a copy of final company
didn’t tell the clients that right and then towards as the years went by they
started coming further to the front of house and there was one Bay that was
talking to bays and three bays and I expected to see that with ten and I
haven’t and I’m thinking most of it’s because when thunk it’s three came out
the price point was just so outrageously low compared to avid time which I think
was still 30 40 K if not more that it it was a just a mind-boggling ly expensive
to just after another added back there so if drop in fifteen hundred bucks or a
thousand bucks on on Final Cut was a no-brainer but now you can buy avid for
you know a few bucks a month well I think what what needs to happen
especially in cases like Hollywood in reality I’ve cut reality in both
premiere and avid is there needs to be apples someone needs to figure out a way
to get like a reality show working in final cut 10 because it would have a
super strong point there first would be the IAI XML capabilities for the audio
fantastic that you can see or your track names in the timeline as well but just
beyond that reality shows our mountains and mountains of crap that you got to
comb through and no NLE comes through mountains of crap like Final Cut 10 does
right so I think if that’s a perfect sample of a market that probably thinks
I can’t use this tool but it would probably benefit them greatly to to to
do reality show in Final Cut 10 now the question I would have is how well is it
going to let multiple editors work together not so well well well is it
going to is it going to work with that hundreds of hours of media you know I
think that looking at known from and I are going to kill me
your your your speaking this that it would benefit them on a creative level
Hollywood is a guy I think I’m going to get so crucified for this Hollywood is a
business right and when you’re dealing two concurrent seasons of Hell’s Kitchen
at the same time there isn’t any wow we could create better with this know if
I’ve got another eight angle thirty hours to come to a point and also we own
this gear or we’re renting this gear if we upset the apple cart and have to rent
more gear or you have to get editors that don’t know how to do this or
increase the time in our pipeline when we’ve already budgeted ourselves there
is no room for error there is no room to make that creative change because we get
to be creative no add of a start that started in a smaller production or on
alright would what are the end of the geography piece though because the
geography piece I don’t I had a different experience and it’s only
because there was so much backlash against ten when it was first introduced
odd backlash and I cuz I was there initially relief
well yeah but also when they released it I heard people like applauded and
everything inside the room and then I went to the hotel here and I went to
sleep and I got up next morning and everybody was saying it was horrible and
I realized nobody had ever seen it I mean it hadn’t been released it was
another five months before it was released and people were just
excoriating it online over and over without any experience with the program
at all and that started a tsunami that I don’t think is valued down today or the
rollout was was was poor and I think that put had soured wasn’t people
in the room it was you can go online and you can see the release people were
applauding they were seeing new things a magnetic timeline clip
collision-avoidance Apple echo for Apple Apple zealot I think at this point
that’s so far in the past is not even worth way all the time I was trying to
make though the geographic point was that I found all of my online from
Patriots talking about it outside of the US and there are tremendously larger
numbers of people that I communicate with now around the world then there are
in my local area yeah and this has really informed a lot of the the growth
in ten is been the growth in other countries and sometimes it disappoints
me greatly because the things that I love about it that database agility that
ability to just think I need that clip and tap a couple of keystrokes and it’s
right there in front of me separated from all the other clicks and it’s on my
timeline and a half a second doesn’t work or does it not if it works leave it
if it doesn’t 86 it can go on to the next thing
those things are still exciting to me and it’s hard to talk with my
compatriots here about them because they’re just still in that mindset of it
doesn’t work well I think that’s a good point about the international thing
because I see the same thing when you see some of the stuff the installations
that have been put together in various facilities and networks in Europe and
you go well okay I don’t know of one in the US that has done the exact same
thing well you’re not the exact same thing there’s some like Scripps Howard
just doing a bunch of stuff in news and stuff like that so it’s out there but a
jack isn’t as promoted as heavily I said right right I think what I’ve found you
know however many years after the launch of fine cotton and in this world of mini
and Elly’s now I I’m happy to debate and talk about you know why I like things
but I’m tired of trying to give it somebody I could care less whether using
premiere avid Final Cut whatever not my job to change your mind if you ask I
will tell and if I see you doing something completely wrong I may offer
my opinion of why you’re doing something wrong most part I don’t have the time or
energy to try to convince anybody anymore well I think sometimes surprised
how much energy some people spend trying to convince other people too
well and I would say this because I got a lot of flack in the early days of
creative cow for being too much of a fanboy and I understand that what I was
saying though is getting in the early days we have last Thursday that’s okay I
wear it probably because just because I saw a bunch of people like but this huge
number of voices saying that was worthless literally worthless and you
know I moviepro don’t go near it I kept seeing these little touch points like
you know this database is really interesting oh this range of base key
wording is really interesting the agile share stuff that was really only intend
for a while then propagated across well these are interesting ideas to me and I
just didn’t want this it seemed to me that since it was solving problems for
me and making me faster in the real world that somebody should at least be
talking about that sort of thing so the people who might resonate with wouldn’t
just dismiss it out of hand and that’s why I think I got the reputation for
being a little too too zealous and I think that was very important in there
in the early on especially for sure because the other was so much
misinformation early on you know they don’t think you’re doing the right thing
you’re you know launching your own training ideas and stuff when you think
I’ve got a better way to to teach people that that’s great but you know the
people who still get on the forums and just industry you know trash it one way
or put seeing the phrases you know and it could be premiere it could be I’m
sure they’ll start happening with resolve you know it’s like as much
energy too much energy is expand on trying to convince the unconvincing flaw
I think there’s already some interesting things coming in with resolve because of
the incredibly low price point compared although is that so – go there – a few
years ago um I think there is some pushback from the high end folks who had
been you know the resolved users who you know somehow that goes against the the
highly paid artiste part of what they do and so they’re looking for a tool that
is somehow very expensive so that they can justify some of the costs that that
they’re involved in so it’ll be an interesting model and it is a very
complex tool if you want to run every thing really well but the good thing
about it is you don’t have to be a good colorist you can still edit with it and
it’s probably for the first time the sort of Holy Grail and I’ll leave that’s
out there because you you know let’s say you’ve got a three room facility one
edit one color one sound mix you could have the exact same tool in all the
rooms but they’re slightly different configuration in terms of speakers
monitors etc for the task at hand and now there’s no need to interchange
project files and stuff like that that that is soand is very intriguing but we
in the time now when the three there are the three room facilities and the 10
room facilities are so much a thing of the past that not only I don’t think
single user no I don’t think so I mean I think it’s both but I I don’t see a lot
of traditional facilities what I do see is production companies who cut their
own stuff and agency they may have a number of rooms but they may only bring
in an editor every now and then it may be the DP who also cuts some of his own
stuff or it might be the director who wants to cut his own on a laptop as
opposed to a suite which is where it was done not very long ago so so the kinds
of things that drive this business are completely different than they were five
or ten years ago I run into very few really legitimate traditional editors
you know that I run into a lot of editors that are hybrid and they are
very talented creatively so I don’t mean that to take away but you know sometimes
it’s a challenge in terms of how they set up a timeline how they organize
their media all of that and you know it’s different than the kind of
disciplines somebody who does nothing but edit you know all the time comes to
and I think you know 10 is probably more forgiving to that than
premier you know and and or for that matter Final Cut 7 in its heyday you
know we’ve all seen some of the most bizarre looking track layouts and stuff
that people of you know I had a guy deliver me a film one time they cut in
final cut six or seven at the time his mindset was an audio mindset and so as a
result every cut cascaded vertically on the video tracks and his audio cascaded
vertically down on the audio track editing in after-effects yeah exactly
and so the first thing I had to do because I was doing the color correction
on the job was just go through and you know clean up his his you know timeline
so it was down to like one or two tracks and when you change a paradigm as much
as tended since that’s the only one I can speak to it is it takes a while to
wrap your brain around a set of behaviors that are unusual compared to
what you have traditionally been used to at the super meet last night Tom Carter
who I think is in the back of the room here somewhere did a demo that was kind
of jaw-dropping in terms of how his very complex audio mixes jump around jump out
of each other’s way and you could do things like cut a longer piece into a
shorter piece incredibly efficiently because of all this plumbing stuff but
boy when you first get into the software and you try to learn how to use it where
is everything moving right why is it moving there I don’t want this let me
just get into position mode and try to make it work like a system I’ve been
working on for 10 years right but I’m comfortable with and until you can get
over that mental hump and figure out how it how it actually operates it can be
developed well I mean don’t you know don’t discount the value of laziness I
mean listen you know I’d be curious to see how many editors that are running
premiere are actually using premieres keyboard map you know if they’re like me
they shifted it to Final Cut tens keyboard Mijares seventh keyboard now
guilty you know because those you know those particular buttons
and assignments seem to make more sense aside from the fact that I already knew
most of them but even if I didn’t where adobe’s decided to place them just don’t
seem logical to me and so obviously that’s one of the reasons that drove
premier adoption was because we didn’t have to relearn anything right as can
live ever been invest back in 1.0 final cut they didn’t even use JKL I adopted
the way back then it was like weird keys and like nobody knew even what the punch
I did a session in the post-production campus it’s been a very busy teaching
and maybe call it how I move seamlessly between dinelli’s and I started off a
session by like you know not talking about the keyboard but the idea was that
they all kind of work the same final cut and still you mark an in-point a now
point and you stick that clip somewhere still works the same as all the others
you want to move stuff around you just flip it around it’d still works the same
as all the others but beyond that my premier and avid keyboard is this weird
hybrid of of you know kind of like what avid was but then changing a bunch of
stuff but I tried that with Final Cut 10 when it first started I’m like you know
what I can’t use that traditional keyboard setup that I’ve know and love
because it just doesn’t work the same right but it changed a 1 through 9 keys
and all the F keys to something that makes it in credit and for me incredibly
easy to move over to Final Cut 10 because the keyboard now all that one
more stat as I was talking to some folks Adobe and they had some some well-known
youtubers they were doing some live streams with them editing stuff with
some of their stuff and they were a couple of editors who you know older
guys who edited a lot they were watching them at it and we’re like what do you
you have to remove that clip no don’t do that there’s two keys that will remove
that and it took them like like you know three keystrokes and a couple of mouse
movies and I think to me that means they don’t care about the keystrokes they’re
just gonna do it their own way it doesn’t really matter you guys astound
me and what I mean by you guys is the guys who can master more than one Emily
and keep that not that hardly I know you say it’s not that hard but I grew
everything up on the first day every time you say that I think about Michael
Jordan planetary class basketball player all the
fast twitch muscle ability in the world incredible sports idea and when he
transitioned to basketball he was a very good bet our baseball is a very good
baseball player but he was a planetary class and the fact that you guys can cut
this amazingly on multiple enemies you have my absolute admiration I can I’m
six years into ten and I can barely get down to the deepest parts of the
software what you know like I really know jack of all trades master noon
now I don’t think it’s master of none you’re the work that’s coming out says
everything different than that you’re competent and beyond competent in all of
these and it’s possible for some people I think to do that that’s just my
personal opinion my brain doesn’t work that way I like to have that that it’s
more like playing the piano I don’t want to think about what’s key to plus I just
want to know how to do the work and for that for me for my type of editor I have
to live in it I have to live in it every day so that it all goes away and it’s
just this needs to be there and that needs to be there and it just happens
like playing the piano without thinking about it and that’s fair I there are
people that don’t want to go in the difference I can’t get bored sometimes
and you know I’ll be like oh I’ve been in here for a month let me go to Final
Cut now for a while just change of scenery but you know I remember early on
and uh why are you laughing are you way it all comes back to sort of
the muscle memory and how well you know the to love what you’re doing it takes
years of experience to do that I remember having a conversation with
Apple at one point when they were talking about you know Final Cut 10
doesn’t throw stuff out of sync true but experienced editors in avid and premiere
don’t throw stuff out of sync either you know what you’re doing if you’re
starting out this is true maybe maybe you do I’m teaching a class at Belmont
University and drove editing for the freshmen every one of them came in with
premiere in Final Cut 10 experience either or trying to chew on them into
avid because that’s what they teach because it’s what’s in Hollywood it is a
road block they they hate it they can’t understand it even the premiere ones who
sort of should know kind of what’s going on here they’re having a really
different meal sometimes a difficult time wrapping the head around the way
avid does things and taking this back several topics I think that’s a little
bit indicative of the future because you’ve got all the up and comers very
fewer on Aven Avid Media Composer first is going to
bring any any youngsters back in to Media Composer it is still such a force
though in the top end of the production world that while back the I think the
best advice was if you want to get a job in a seat in Hollywood learn avid that
was pretty safe right and he never got fired for buying avid right yeah right
so how do you see that tension is it still there is it is there final some
crumbling and that or what do you think a lot of the media schools that I work
with down in the LA area but keycode media has offices throughout the country
so a lot of times I’m working with them and they’re still using that same line
which is we want them to be able to get a job in Hollywood but now it’s moving
to we want them to get a job in Hollywood too we want them to use a tool
that’s being used in the industry they’re no longer saying they have to go
to Hollywood and I think that’s a great benefit to educators who are mired in
red tape to be able to see the force for the trees and realize that Hollywood
doesn’t have to be the end all be all right
and the fact that more media than than ever is coming from places other than
Hollywood is just indicative of that that you can learn are the tools and you
don’t have to adhere to what the machine that is Hollywood is using that’s kind
of where we started right it’s a golden age of it’s a golden age of NLEs and for
everybody these tools are astonishing we all probably started a long time ago and
we were lucky to be able to get DV on a timeline without dropping frames and the
fact that oh yeah the fact okay even your case is not so much but the fact
that we can touch 4k and 8k timelines and make sense out of them and work with
them is pretty amazing so no matter what tool you adopt right you’re going to
have an amazing opportunity to communicate using any of these tools you

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